Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

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Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  Clint on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:27 am

I'm up for people's opinion on this matter. Any believers or non-believers, please also put your thoughts down if you feel you need to. Reason I'm posting it in the Bible / Christian section is because it specifically deals with 'prayer' in Christian teachings.

In regards to the article I posted here. (You'll need to read). I've since had a conversation with a couple of, what I dub, 'fundamentalist sympathisers' in which they state "they did the best they can", and it shouldn't be associated to murder. One crackpot actually went to the length of saying that it's just as understandable to "believe" that prayer would save your child's life, just as much as the belief that science and medicine would save your child's life, because "it's what they believe." ...Well no! They are miles a part from being considered equal. Prayer, has constantly been proven time and time again to be fallacious while achieving nothing. While proven medicine on the other hand has had hundreds of years of successful track records by using the scientific process and methodology of researching, gathering evidence, testing, more research, more testing and so forth, to get an entire frame work of supporting evidence and reason to obtain the BEST known solution / cures for such things.

The moral obligation we have here, which clearly wasn't fulfilled in this case is that if your child is sick, you should be willing to do next to ANYTHING to save their life. Yes you can make a prayer, there isn't anything wrong with the inclusion of a prayer. But doing only that, is going out of your way to wilfully ignore proven method's of treatment, inhibiting the recovery while actively taking part in your child's death. ...It's a moral disgrace.

Does anyone agree / disagree with me? I'd love to hear your thoughts :-)
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Re: Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  Admin on Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:45 pm

Personally I do not think the parents are guilty of murder but rather manslaughter. They have been fooled into thinking the Bible is a source of truth and truly thought they were doing the right thing to help their child. Despite the parents' role this was however still a case of murder. The murderers are the ones who know that prayer as Jesus describes in the Bible is NOT a valid form of medication BUT still preach that the Bible is an infallible source of absolute truth.

This is the same as a bunch of people tricking a family and convincing them a bridge crossing a canyon is stable even though they know it is not and will not cross the bridge themselves. The family who walks across the bridge with their child is not guilty of murdering their child when the bridge collapses but rather it is the people who tricked the family into having their child fall to his/her death that are the true murderers.
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Re: Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  Niels on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:22 pm

Admin wrote:Personally I do not think the parents are guilty of murder but rather manslaughter. They have been fooled into thinking the Bible is a source of truth and truly thought they were doing the right thing to help their child.
I'm not so sure they had the best interests of their child in mind. They seem to care only what's best for God, never mind the consequences to their daughter.

Without calling them guilty or not guilty, I think these people are not fit to raise children. Their surviving children should be taken away, as soon as possible. I'm not sure whether prison time would do any good. Locking up their priests would do much more good, as Admin suggested.
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Re: Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  Akuma9 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:09 am

While I agree with Admin...it is child abuse and child neglect as well.

Here is the punishment I see fit for them (and be they better be thankful I'm not the judge):

All their surviving children should be placed in state's care, immediately.
The parents should serve a MINIMUM of 5 years in jail and a MINIMUM of 10 years of STRICT SUPERVISED probation (because we know they would just have more sex after jail - in which the kids would be immediately taken away).
During this 15 years of government control, they are to be in counselling at least once a week by a Psychotherapist. (Is it me or does that look like Psycho/the/rapist? lol ) At which time they are to be taught WHY they should have done more.
And lastly, before being sent to jail, they would receive a mob like ass kicking from the enraged citizens of the community.

I came from an abusive family....so if I seem a bit extreme...well...you know why.
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Re: Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  Clint on Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:09 am

I agree with you all actually. I should clear one thing up when I brush them with the "murder" label. I'm currently an Aussie living in England, so for me it's generally split into three categories; 1. planned (that's first degree) murder, 2. intentional murder or 3. murder as a result of neglect. I had a quick look at definitions and each country has slightly different meanings by the look of it.

They clearly didn't plan this, so we all know it's not first degree murder. For me they definitely fit into the 3rd category, edging towards the 2nd. I think in U.S. (which I'm assuming you guys are in) that'd be equivalent to 'voluntary manslaughter' or 'second degree murder' ...In which they were convicted. So I think we're both poking at the same meaning.

Admin - quite a good analogy (i'm going to re-use that one!) I'd like to extend it a little too with; they took their child across this corrupt bridge in full awareness that right next to it there is a sound, expensive and solid construction built by engineers, that is constantly carrying people successfully from one side to the other all day long. They willfully chose the corrupt bridge :-) And as with you, I too believe the most dangerous are the one's preaching these lies in full knowledge it has no effect.

Some more quotes:
- Dale Neumann told a Bible study friend he considered his daughter's illness "a test of his faith," Leonhard said."

- "If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann testified.

Stat's show that 998 out of 1,000 people with her type of diabetes's can be treated and live healthy live's! ...Poor girl!
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Re: Frustration with fundamentalist sympathisers

Post  lawandorder on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:03 pm

Sorry. I have no sympathy for parents that refuse medical treatment for their children in the name of "god'. None. On top of serving time for murder, to that add time for being ignorant. After time served, they should speak publicly that prayer does not work.

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